Competition: Solve the traffic nightmare!!

Nick Inatey | Jan 6, 2011 12:00 pm | 83 comments | 7362 reads

Do you have the solution to the traffic nightmare? The Beijinger is running a competition inviting all to vent their frustration and solutions to the congestion.

Long-time Beijing expat Jeremiah Jenne in his Jottings from the Granite Studio blogged his frustration over Beijing's notorious peak hour traffic. There is everything from the sardine subways, to bus drivers refusing to drive, to taxis with drivers so inept at navigation you need to commandeer the vehicle. In his blog the weary traveler has proposed a 'three-part plan' to somehow alleviate the traffic woes on Beijing streets:

  1. Rush hour premium pricing on taxi's where an extra 5 kuai is added for all travels in and out of the 3rd ring rd.
  2. Removing the hukou restriction for Beijing taxi drivers, suggesting that even most Beijing born taxi drivers barely know the location of their own home or elbow.
  3. Raise the standard of taxi driver's examinations. Forget whether they can speak English, just make sure they're able to read directions in Chinese.

Obviously this person favors the taxi over the other forms of transport. Is it your choice transport (The subway, bus, taxi, moped or the trusty bicycle)? What would your solutions be?

With this in mind the Beijinger is running a competition inviting all readers to become online transportation planning authorities. We want you to vent your traffic frustrations and share your most interesting solutions to the peak hour nightmare. We don't care how crazy or dysfunctional the ideas are, because lets face it, we live in a fairly dysfunctional city.

The person with the most interesting story and solutions will receive a bottle of Chilean Cabernet Savignon, complementary of the The Beijinger staff. Its jammy complexities and gridlocked palate (as reviewed by connoisseurs) will be the perfect drop when you eventually arrive home from work.

All responses can be made in the comments section at the bottom of this post.

Good luck and happy venting everyone!

Comments

New comments are displayed first.

Comments

Abbysal27's picture Abbysal27 Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/01/2015 - 15:00

Ban all private vehicles within the 3rd ring road, only public transport.
Educate people on the proper way to enter and exit public transport.
Limit the amount of people allowed on buses or in train carriages.
Staff on every carriage of every train in the city as well as buses to enforce penalties on unsociable behaviour.
Stagger working hours.
Enforce every law with zero tolerance.

If all else fails, send 50% of Beijing's population home.

organicbabyclothes's picture organicbabyclothes Submitted by Guest on Wed, 07/27/2011 - 19:22

1. Separate lanes for buses. I have travelled by buses a lot and most of the time they constantly change lanes and due to their size everything else slows down. With exclusive rapid bus lanes, it will not only make traveling by buses faster, it will also encourage more people to take the bus so that there will be fewer cars on the road. (This is totally out of topic but they should really turn on the air conditioners in the buses in the summer - It would make the wait time so much more tolerable)

2. More pedestrian bridges with escalators so that its more comfortable for the elderly and those with young kids. Once the people are off the roads, much of the traffic will become better as cars will not have to halt for people to cross in many places.

3. The traffic light system here is bulls***. When the walking and bike green light is on, why is it allowed to go right for the cars too? It just slows everyone down. Also some of the traffic lights are too long and some too short. This needs to be sorted out.

4. Fixed pay and share taxis for fixed routes. Four people to a taxi and the minimum cost of RMB 10 would come down to 2.5. Great for everyone.

5. Special incentives for those who carpool. There could be carpool pick up spots and people could register for them according to time and destination. It would take a bit of planning but its not impossible.

6. Work from home incentives for people who can. I am sure there are many professions in which people can easily work from home so why not? Also why not introduce separate timings for offices? Why does everyone have to work from 8-5 or 9-5? There must be many offices where it would be ok if people worked from 10-6 or 11-7 or even 7-4? I am not sure but is this feasible?

7. Change school timings so as not to co-incide with rush hour traffic. Not only will it save the kids from pollution but also from boring wait in the traffic.

8. Lately I have started riding an electric scooter and have realized that most people park in the bike lane and then the bikers have to move to the car lane because there is no option. This has to be changed. Also many people block the entrance of bike lanes with cars or trucks. This just increases the congestion.

9. Hawkers need to be taken off road corners.

10. More parking lots so that people do not park in the streets.

12. Most drivers here do not have the sense to drive so better education of drivers will go a long way too.

13. There are some bottle neck places, especially on the third ring road that should be looked over and changed.

14. The above mentioned changes are necessary but until people understand this problem responsibly and do something about this, there will be no change. 'Be the change you want to see.' Before a few days, I saw some people talking outside Laitai with their car in the middle of the road. The entire traffic was logged for 15-20 minutes because of them and inspite of honks, they did not budge. Till there are such stupid people in this city, there will be traffic jams and snarls.

MAM's picture MAM Submitted by Guest on Thu, 06/02/2011 - 12:24

Olympic restrictions are back soon. Beijing Government is limiting people's freedom instead of doing obvious: fine pedestrians, bicycle riders and car owners for breaking the rules! Fine 1000 pedestrians, show it on TV and others won't dare to break the rules again. Very simple. Problem is that Beijing Government officials don't know the rules themselves! Economy is developing faster than people's brain!

nick.inatey's picture nick.inatey Submitted by Guest on Tue, 01/18/2011 - 13:22

danedwards wrote:
I suggest summary execution for any drivers who fail to give way to pedestrians when they have the green walk sign at traffic lights, or who fail to give way to pedestrians at marked crossings.

That should reduce Beijing's car fleet by about 95 percent within three days, as well as ridding the city of many of its most arrogant and selfish citizens.

This approach would also have the benefit of assisting with population control.

yep, another example from someone who has been here far too long now.

danedwards's picture danedwards Submitted by Guest on Tue, 01/18/2011 - 12:41

I suggest summary execution for any drivers who fail to give way to pedestrians when they have the green walk sign at traffic lights, or who fail to give way to pedestrians at marked crossings.

That should reduce Beijing's car fleet by about 95 percent within three days, as well as ridding the city of many of its most arrogant and selfish citizens.

This approach would also have the benefit of assisting with population control.

Register and post your own events on the beijinger website.

snagglepus's picture snagglepus Submitted by Guest on Sat, 01/15/2011 - 20:13

A solution to the traffic nightmare? That's akin to using a butter knife to untie a Gordian Knot. Sadly, no Alexander the Great in this city among the minions called 'traffic engineers', although some of them can be traced back to their Neanderthal ancestors. Or was that Peking Man?
I use a variety of forms of transportation including car, motorcycle, bicycle,subway and taxi, so I have a reasonable perspective on the problem, but I'm no Alexander either. I'm not even his descendant, Alexander the Not So Great, but here's my thoughts on the problem.
Regarding the Ring Roads, especially the 2nd and 3rd, one of the big problems is the entry and exit points. Some genius decided to place them close together, with the entry first and then the exit. That means, as anyone with a car knows, that as traffic fights to exit a Ring Road, they have to muscle their way through all the traffic that is trying to enter the Ring Road. If that wasn't bad enough, you often find a bus stop in the middle of the two points, built big enough for two buses only (due to the closeness of entry and exit points) in which five or six buses are trying to pull into or get out of.
We all know that the 2nd and 3rd Ring Roads are simply short crawls between each entry/exit point, where the crawl plugs up like a hairball in a cat's throat. Ack, ack!
The solution here is actually reasonably doable. First of all, change entry and exit points, spacing them a 'bridge' apart. Second, take the buses off the Ring Roads. Why are they there anyway? Another hazard at these points is pedestrians who are forced to hopscotch across the side roads to get to the bus stops. Only 'express' buses that travel non-stop for some distance should be allowed on the inner Ring Roads.
Another step that can be done is to make Beijing a little more friendly for motorcycles and motorbikes. I drive my motorcycle pretty well daily because it's a lot faster than my car to get around. Cycles are smaller, take up less space, burn less gas, emit less pollutants, assuming they're reasonably new and are 4-strokes. Of course, cycle drivers now believe that rules of the road don't apply to them, but that might change with easily available registration and license plates. Let the cameras pick them up doing their illegal maneuvers and fine them like they do car drivers.
The other big problem that I see is not vehicles, but pedestrians and bicycles, etc. who wander all over the road and obviously come from the same mother of all pedestrians, who was color-blind, her DNA affecting all of the current crop of pedestrians who cannot see the color 'red'.
The police do not chase anyone down to ticket them here and I've been told that that is on orders from the top. They don't want to stop the wrong comrade who has a little more guangxi than usual. Don't want to end up working an intersection in Inner Mongolia's far reaches where the traffic is mostly sheep.
However, if police were stationed at major intersections and did start handing out tickets to jay walkers, etc., then eventually the peds would start getting the idea - cross when the light is green, not red, and stay on the curb until it turns green.
There are lots of other possibilities, but given the nature of the Chinese, who appear to have missed out on the attribute called 'patience' and who believe that rules are things to get around, along with the questions of money, practicability, and lack of enforcement, then I suggest that the solutions above might be at least good first steps. Educating the school kids would be a good idea too, but then, they've got enough homework already. Learning about road rules would likely be deemed by parents as a waste of precious study time. Maybe it should be a mandatory subject with a grade assigned? That might do it.

Futuaris nisi irrisus ridebus

bobarctor's picture bobarctor Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/13/2011 - 16:36

nick.inatey wrote:
bobarctor wrote:
On top priority: develop extremely the subway system and improve its density. It makes me laugh when people tells me Beijing system is the biggest, the greatest... Paris has stations every 300 meters, Tokyo, beside being the most extensive subway system, has excellent connections with long distance lines, in HK, you are literally maximum 100 meters away from any subway exit.

As the subway development plan for the next 20 years is not even close from what I described, I would suggest the following:

1) Add more cameras to identify and fine the drivers who take the emergency lanes: this is particularly annoying on the fifth ring in the evening and completely block the drivers who wish to get out the ring.

2) Some cross-roads need to be clearly redesigned (ex: Sanlitun/Gongti) and certain congested roads must became one way only.

3) Forbid taxi drivers to stop anywhere on most congested axis and design stopping areas (this is the case in HK).

Bonus: I believe that one of the top reason of the massive congestion is due to drivers misbehavior. I see only one possibility is more police check trough cameras.

Having subway stations every 300 metres are an unnecessary and expensive burden on a subway system. You can walk those distances. Lines 1, 2, 5 and 10 have arguably too many subway stations anyway. Having more will make a subway commute to and from work more stressful. I cite the distance between Tuanjiehu and Nongyeguanzhan. 600m apart and completely annoying. Ditto Mudanyuan, Jiandemen, Xitucheng and Zhichunli to name a few.

Hong Kong has a phenomenal subway because Hong Kong is the size of a bee's dick compared to beijing. It's only a third the population also. And finally, if you live on Hong Kong island, you dont even need the subway to go to work. So, effectively they have built a subway to cater for about 4 million people. You btw are only citing Kowloon and Kowloon peninsula as your example. Go out to NT or Lantau Island where you realise is isnt 'literally 100m.'

I agree with you when people say Beijing 'is the greatest subway system etc etc.' I roll my eyes when I hear it.

In regards to your complaint about Beijing lacking proper transport connections: Currently the Beijing subway links to Beijing Railway station, Beijing North railway station, Beijing South Railway Station and from about November this year, Beijing West Railway Station. Dongzhimen station is not only a transfer to the Airport express, but also to Long and short distance buses. Just as an example. My friend and I last year went to Tianjin. We left Wudaokou and 80 minutes later we were in Tianjin. You CANNOT complain about that.

Stop ragging on the subway. 14 lines is impressive. Its starting to take the octupus shape required in a major city. By 2015 there will be substantial coverage of the city within the 4th ring road.

Beijing is 22 million people. Excluding Tokyo, the cities you mention are all less than half that.

Youre other suggestions on the other hand are very clever and i agree entirely

Thanks for your very developed and detailed answer.
I agree that Hong-Kong can't be a point of comparison especially when you look at how the city was developed.

To be straight: in most part of Beijing city I don't think the existing subway system can compete with one using his own car. It certainly has to do with the way the city has developed, but going from a point A to a point B can end-up by taking 4 buses AND 2 subways. From a user stand point, I understand that most of my colleagues for example, all purchase a car primarily to go to work (even for those living as close as 6km from the office) but also for going shopping and go outside the city for the week-end.

The problem with Beijing subway is that it is between a metro and a light rails system: line 5 is a typical stupid example. It connects remote neighborhood like Tiantongyuan to the city center but has very close stations as well within Beijing where it should be clearly cut as two lines to smooth traffic.

Anyway, it is nice to say that people should take the subway but when I see already the massive congestion on the subway I am afraid that it also can't handle too much traffic increase.

PS: i don't understand why Beijing has limited the use of scooters. This could be a possible solution to the jams by limiting the space that people take on the road for a single person journey. That's how it is working in Taipei.

bigsisjiejie's picture bigsisjiejie Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/13/2011 - 02:39

I'm all for getting the roadways in order, handing out fines to scofflaw drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians, and putting strong financial disincentives in place to discourage driving--including but not limited to fuel rationing for nonpublic/nonessential vehicles. However, the existing public transportation infrastructure is starting to really show the strain, and people still need to have options, especially if home-work distance is too far to be bridged by self-propulsion such as walking or bike.

Beijing definitely needs additional subway capacity. But I disagree with somebody above who think fewer stops are needed. I think the existing Lines need every bit of those stops--and in some locations they are too far apart (especially if you are no longer young). However, especially at peak hours, Beijing needs to run additional trains, add another car to the trains (platforms are long enough), and consider operationally staggering stops with every other train, so that all trains stop at all transfer stations but only every other intermediate non-transfer stop. It's slightly more operationally complicated but doable. For an individual traveller on a given train, this would mean some time savings on a journey. I think when there is some additional direct east-west capacity on line, some pressure will come off Lines 1 and 10.

I'm seeing a lot of uneven-ness in the buses--I've seen some pretty empty busses even in rush hour, while others are fairly packed. I think Beijing transportation needs to be evaluating every route and frequency and adjust. Too many empty buses are a waste of energy plus clog up the roads. I rarely take the bus because you get stuck in the same traffic as the cars--I'd rather be a sardine on the subway as at least that keeps moving. Agree with above observations that bus stops are often placed horribly. As are a number of bus station locations. Some relocation is in order.

I'm in the camp that thinks Beijing is nearly beyond its population capacity, and the gov't needs to not only restrict additional growth/influx into Beijing, but actively work to depopulate by at least 2-3 million people. For a large number of reasons. It's a race to see whether traffic woes or lack-of-water woes will be the first to bring this city to its knees.

chaspope's picture chaspope Submitted by Guest on Wed, 01/12/2011 - 21:59

Right.

First up, no one has mentioned pedestrians. The idiots just keep walking into the roads and screwing up the flow, no matter how many kilometers of annoying white fencing the authorities keep putting up. Why does it take half an hour to pass each set of traffic lights? Because of MORONS standing halfway out into the road whilst waiting to cross, therefore funelling a three-lane road down to one clear lane. And blocking the left-turn filter lanes completely during the precious few seconds the drivers are given in every traffic light cycle. Luckily Darwinism should eliminate the worst offenders here.

Secondly tricyclists. Their three-wheelers are pretty wide by the time they’ve loaded about two tonnes of junk on to the back. So they should be sent off on a one-way ticket to Xinjiang if they are caught cycling on the wrong side of the road, hoping no one will notice.

Then there are the drivers of heavy trucks, who clearly think they are exempt from the law that requires them to stop at red traffic lights at night (provided they are at least 40 tonnes over the weight limit). They should receive hefty fines for this, to make them rethink the economic calculations that have led them to scrimp on replacing broken lights and brakes, or to use the dirtiest, least-distilled, benzene-laden fuel.

All existing driving instructors should be sacked immediately. They teach people to drive in a test centre, which is far away from normal roads. They teach them how to drive from one parking space straight to another, which is no doubt a valuable life skill somewhere in the world, but not here. They finally give their students a driving certificate when they pass. Then they send them away and let them interact with other road users FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER.

All other road users are also a major problem, but earlier comments have already covered most of these issues.

Last but not least, the designers of the road system deserve a lot of criticism, although I’m not sure whether there is in fact anyone in China who can design a road. Let’s take one example: Chaoyang Lu just west of the Third Ring Road intersection. It’s a three-carriageway road, complete with plenty of those annoying white fences. One of the earlier comments mentions the idiocy of putting bus stops straight after the junction, which destroys exit capacity. Tick – multiple bus stops are indeed present. But this junction goes one better. The overhead wires swerve from the inside lane to the outside lane as they go under the bridge, so trolleybuses have to cross all lanes of traffic to get to the middle of the road, then cross back again, then stop at the bus stop. Genius. They designers of that transportation gem should be publicly hung, drawn and quartered in celebration of their efforts.

Unfortunately, I don’t think there are any solutions in the above. Therefore here is my proposal: as China regularly reminds us, it invented most things - in fact I think it invented the invention. So, they should put some effort into inventing the de-invention, and then de-invent the road. This will solve all of our road traffic problems at a stroke.

Heping's picture Heping Submitted by Guest on Wed, 01/12/2011 - 19:27

London has a congestion charge applied to anyone driving within the city between the hours of 7.00am and 6.00pm. Which makes driving to work a more expensive option. While an additional benefit of reducing the private traffic on the roads is that taxi and bus journeys are speed up making them more efficient to use. Its a win - win situation. Implementing it in Beijing would be simple using the Ring roads to mark the areas covered by the additional charge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_congestion_charge

nick.inatey's picture nick.inatey Submitted by Guest on Tue, 01/11/2011 - 15:56

bobarctor wrote:
On top priority: develop extremely the subway system and improve its density. It makes me laugh when people tells me Beijing system is the biggest, the greatest... Paris has stations every 300 meters, Tokyo, beside being the most extensive subway system, has excellent connections with long distance lines, in HK, you are literally maximum 100 meters away from any subway exit.

As the subway development plan for the next 20 years is not even close from what I described, I would suggest the following:

1) Add more cameras to identify and fine the drivers who take the emergency lanes: this is particularly annoying on the fifth ring in the evening and completely block the drivers who wish to get out the ring.

2) Some cross-roads need to be clearly redesigned (ex: Sanlitun/Gongti) and certain congested roads must became one way only.

3) Forbid taxi drivers to stop anywhere on most congested axis and design stopping areas (this is the case in HK).

Bonus: I believe that one of the top reason of the massive congestion is due to drivers misbehavior. I see only one possibility is more police check trough cameras.

Having subway stations every 300 metres are an unnecessary and expensive burden on a subway system. You can walk those distances. Lines 1, 2, 5 and 10 have arguably too many subway stations anyway. Having more will make a subway commute to and from work more stressful. I cite the distance between Tuanjiehu and Nongyeguanzhan. 600m apart and completely annoying. Ditto Mudanyuan, Jiandemen, Xitucheng and Zhichunli to name a few.

Hong Kong has a phenomenal subway because Hong Kong is the size of a bee's dick compared to beijing. It's only a third the population also. And finally, if you live on Hong Kong island, you dont even need the subway to go to work. So, effectively they have built a subway to cater for about 4 million people. You btw are only citing Kowloon and Kowloon peninsula as your example. Go out to NT or Lantau Island where you realise is isnt 'literally 100m.'

I agree with you when people say Beijing 'is the greatest subway system etc etc.' I roll my eyes when I hear it.

In regards to your complaint about Beijing lacking proper transport connections: Currently the Beijing subway links to Beijing Railway station, Beijing North railway station, Beijing South Railway Station and from about November this year, Beijing West Railway Station. Dongzhimen station is not only a transfer to the Airport express, but also to Long and short distance buses. Just as an example. My friend and I last year went to Tianjin. We left Wudaokou and 80 minutes later we were in Tianjin. You CANNOT complain about that.

Stop ragging on the subway. 14 lines is impressive. Its starting to take the octupus shape required in a major city. By 2015 there will be substantial coverage of the city within the 4th ring road.

Beijing is 22 million people. Excluding Tokyo, the cities you mention are all less than half that.

Youre other suggestions on the other hand are very clever and i agree entirely

Thim Anglais's picture Thim Anglais Submitted by Guest on Tue, 01/11/2011 - 15:56

Some people have made reference to too many people in too little space. I think this is misguided. Go to Seoul. Go to Taipei. There are far more people in far less space. The traffic isn't as bad there. The difference is in those cities they build tight, dense and tall cities with restaurants on the 6th floors and subway stops in urban centers. I can think of no place in Beijing that is dense and urban where you have 30 shops a subway stop, and roads all within a 200 meter radius. I mean, just to get from Dongsishitiao to the village takes a 20 minute walk. Subways, though useful, don't function as well in cities that are so spread out. The long lines (1 and 5) are horribly congested because people live so far away and its their only way to return home. If they lived closer in, then they could either use alternative modes of transportation, or at least get on and off earlier.

So density and walkability is a big problem, the next one is Mixed Use housing. Beijing is full of 30 plus residential complexes that might have 1 小摊 selling only the basics. Otherwise it's at least a 5 minute walk just out of your compound and a 10 minute walk to a restaurant. For a metropolis that's absurd.

This all leads to the bicycle being the best mode of transportation. But still, if you need to get from WuDaoKou to JianGuoMen. It will take more than an hour by bike. So that pushes people into cars....

I would say the solutions are:

1) Build the city more densely. Put restaurants and shops on the first floors of residential compounds, sacrifice some private green space, make public buildings, banks, etc smaller or at least many storied. STOP BUILDING IN THE FIFTH RING ROAD AND FARTHER OUT - Exurbs suck in the U.S. and they suck in China.

2) Encourage bicycle and motorcycle riding. It's the fastest and most convenient transportation with less congestion and less space used for parking. Yes it's hard in the winter, invest in thermals, or one of those partially enclosed motorcycles.

3) Build bus only lanes, set up carpooling meeting stations from hubs (say SiHui to CBD).

4) People, live near where you work. Yes, it may be more expensive, and Chinese are especially good savers, but is 600 Kuai saved per month so you can live in a fat apartment in the 5th ring worth the daily 2 hour commute that location requires? Hopefully not, you're time is precious (you can spend it self-cultivating, hanging out with friends or - more likely - surfing the internet).

jixiang1's picture jixiang1 Submitted by Guest on Tue, 01/11/2011 - 09:50

Serious restrictions on the right to buy a car (I mean very serious), or strong taxation on cars, so that ordinary people cannot afford them any longer. At the same time, the already quite good public transport system should be made even better, with even more buses and subways lines than there already are, so that the commuters don't get too squashed.

mwelch's picture mwelch Submitted by Guest on Tue, 01/11/2011 - 08:29

Quote:
Cheeky question: What bus goes from Sanyuanqiao to Wanda Plaza??
110 to Chaoyang Yiyuan, switch to 118, get off at xiaozhuang lukou dong and walk. Smile

I think a lot of the traffic issues would be fixed if they could time the damn traffic lights correctly... I remember sitting on stopped busses on Chaowai da jie for upwards of 15 minutes waiting for one traffic light to change.

petitnicolas's picture petitnicolas Submitted by Guest on Mon, 01/10/2011 - 21:00

Citizen enforcement:

Allow video reporting of traffic violations by all residents of Beijing with a valid hukou or residence permit. After registering at a youku-esque site that is administered by the police department, you would be allowed to submit videos that would then be reviewed by traffic cops. Videos that clearly depict violations along with license plate details will result in fines for the drivers, and some sort of reward for the videographer, perhaps a percentage of the fine...The grannies of the 'jing will come out in droves for this.

bobarctor's picture bobarctor Submitted by Guest on Mon, 01/10/2011 - 15:40

On top priority: develop extremely the subway system and improve its density. It makes me laugh when people tells me Beijing system is the biggest, the greatest... Paris has stations every 300 meters, Tokyo, beside being the most extensive subway system, has excellent connections with long distance lines, in HK, you are literally maximum 100 meters away from any subway exit.

As the subway development plan for the next 20 years is not even close from what I described, I would suggest the following:

1) Add more cameras to identify and fine the drivers who take the emergency lanes: this is particularly annoying on the fifth ring in the evening and completely block the drivers who wish to get out the ring.

2) Some cross-roads need to be clearly redesigned (ex: Sanlitun/Gongti) and certain congested roads must became one way only.

3) Forbid taxi drivers to stop anywhere on most congested axis and design stopping areas (this is the case in HK).

Bonus: I believe that one of the top reason of the massive congestion is due to drivers misbehavior. I see only one possibility is more police check trough cameras.

nick.inatey's picture nick.inatey Submitted by Guest on Mon, 01/10/2011 - 12:32

antfarmks5 wrote:
nick.inatey wrote:
antfarmks5 wrote:
I think driving is great. I love driving. Cars are an essential part of civilization, and we should not limit vehicle ownership or license registration if we expect China to be a GREAT COUNTRY. The government should subsidize fuel costs and bring back the tax subsidies for owners of small-engine vehicles, which really pollute less and can fit into tighter spaces so they don't really contribute to any traffic problems. Did you know the invention of the auto-mobile corresponds with the emergence of the awesome Western military-industrial complex? It is sort of like having a gun in your pants. (That is a metaphor.) Sometimes I go home at night and put my car inside my girlfriend. Yes, I have a girlfriend! I love my car.

^^^ …yeah, that needs to change.

You are a tragically deluded individual.

(You may want to reread...) Biggrin

oh sarcasm. swish. got me.

if not sarcastic, re refer to my original comments.

antfarmks5's picture antfarmks5 Submitted by Guest on Sat, 01/08/2011 - 19:34

nick.inatey wrote:
antfarmks5 wrote:
I think driving is great. I love driving. Cars are an essential part of civilization, and we should not limit vehicle ownership or license registration if we expect China to be a GREAT COUNTRY. The government should subsidize fuel costs and bring back the tax subsidies for owners of small-engine vehicles, which really pollute less and can fit into tighter spaces so they don't really contribute to any traffic problems. Did you know the invention of the auto-mobile corresponds with the emergence of the awesome Western military-industrial complex? It is sort of like having a gun in your pants. (That is a metaphor.) Sometimes I go home at night and put my car inside my girlfriend. Yes, I have a girlfriend! I love my car.

^^^ …yeah, that needs to change.

You are a tragically deluded individual.

(You may want to reread...) Biggrin

vmomo's picture vmomo Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 17:23

Money money money - a massive congestion charge if people use their cars inside the 4th ring road, a huge fine if they have only one person in the car, increase the cost of petrol.

In fact here's what I really think should happen: it should be harder to get a license to own a car - why do you really need one? Unless you have mobility issues - or a professional need for one then private ownership of cars should be banned and you would have to rent, use taxis, buses, and the subway.

johnnybigstar's picture johnnybigstar Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 16:58

nick.inatey wrote:
admin wrote:
herojuana wrote:
Just a quick question, not to get off topic Nick and admin.

Do you guys, as foreigners in China, endeavour to follow the rules of the road despite the anarchy going on around you?

i rarely drive. i've rented a car a few times and when i have, i follow the rules of the road.

I've intentionally avoided getting a car because i know that the frustration of driving will drive me to irrational acts of road rage

I dont have a car here. But if I did, I honestly wouldnt follow the rules. Thats tantamount to insurance fraud here. Besides, as you may have noticed in some of my other posts, I am a big big believer and promoter in public transport! Go team subway!


。。。i have a car here and to be honest...well sorry but i DO NOT follow the rules. As anyone who drives here could tell you; driving by the rules would only result in getting yourself into an accident...when in rome!
~ the very first time i drove i was on the 3rd ring road and wanted to get off..well i signaled and waited till someone would let me in, but of course nobody did..so i missed my exit..then i missed the 2nd exit.. i just couldn't get into the right hand lane!! finally i saw a bus coming and thought they'd let me in for sure (remember it was my first time driving)... so i still had my signal on and started to move over.. the bus just blared his horn and hit the gas not to let me in..scared the hell outta me...driving courteously will only get you stuck on a ring road for hours without being able to get off... nah... you wanna change lanes... DO NOT indicate, speed up, and ram yourself in between 2 cars as closely as possible.. that's how they do it so thats how they expect you to do it and are prepared for it!

( yup, another reason to get the buses OFF the road and return to bicycles..and fyi: i dont drive to work or at all during daytime..i DO ride my bike everywhere!)

herojuana's picture herojuana Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 16:13

I didn't want a car, my wife insisted we get one because she was worried about me riding my motorcycle.

Where I work is not anywhere remotely near a subway, and I'm sorry but I refuse to take the bus. I work out in the sticks, it would take hours.

If I were still single, I'd still be on my 125 cc Suzuki, it can go 100 km maximum and that's more than enough.

I'm completely with you guys on the whole "having a car in Beijing is stupid" thing.

I really envy people that live walking distance to their place of employment.

Irish coffee, and Irish car bomb
A fat drunk jew starts singing this song
I take a closer look and the fat guy is me
So I buy him a shot, and he buys me back three

nick.inatey's picture nick.inatey Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 15:02

Barry wrote:
- Start applying traffic rules (supposed to be known by anyone with a driving license).

- Start fining bicycles, tricycles and so on for driving against the traffic.

- High fines for any offence that interferes the traffic flow. (Cars coming from side roads totally blocking off the bike lane because they can't enter the main road yet, bicycles stopping anywhere except the assigned location).

- No more green light for turning left and going straight at the same time (if both this and the opposite site get green light at the same time).

- Start towing cars (during my 3 years in BJ, I didn't see a single police towing truck being used what it is made for). I think this the best way to cause inconvenience to the wealthy!

- Car impounds close to the most far from the center (future) subway stations (In order to cause more inconvenience to the wealthy!).

- Let retired old people pay for public transport during rush hour (unless it's for accompanying a child not old enough to travel on its own yet).

- Force underground parking lot owners to lower prices in order to get cars of the street. (To many empty underground parking lots due to crazy prices).

- Cars parked in bicycle lanes should be heavily fined and/or towed. (It forces bicycles onto car lanes, causing danger and slowing down motorized traffic).

- Reward/subsidize companies that let employees work flexible times. (For example 7:00-16:00 instead of 9:00-18:00).

Almost all your ideas are wonderful.
A few additions could be, an absolute clamp down on black cabs. Lets face it, they compound the traffic problems with deliberate disregard for any road rule.

Perhaps fixing the exit/entry lanes on the 3rd ring rd! They are horrific.

A complete ban on U-turns at intersections.

Specific bus lanes on all major arterial roads, just like in Seoul. Has anyone been to Seoul? It amazing how a city of 24 million people, with streets a quarter the width of Chang'an Jia has minimal traffic congestion.

Barry's picture Barry Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 14:16

- Start applying traffic rules (supposed to be known by anyone with a driving license).

- Start fining bicycles, tricycles and so on for driving against the traffic.

- High fines for any offence that interferes the traffic flow. (Cars coming from side roads totally blocking off the bike lane because they can't enter the main road yet, bicycles stopping anywhere except the assigned location).

- No more green light for turning left and going straight at the same time (if both this and the opposite site get green light at the same time).

- Start towing cars (during my 3 years in BJ, I didn't see a single police towing truck being used what it is made for). I think this the best way to cause inconvenience to the wealthy!

- Car impounds close to the most far from the center (future) subway stations (In order to cause more inconvenience to the wealthy!).

- Let retired old people pay for public transport during rush hour (unless it's for accompanying a child not old enough to travel on its own yet).

- Force underground parking lot owners to lower prices in order to get cars of the street. (To many empty underground parking lots due to crazy prices).

- Cars parked in bicycle lanes should be heavily fined and/or towed. (It forces bicycles onto car lanes, causing danger and slowing down motorized traffic).

- Reward/subsidize companies that let employees work flexible times. (For example 7:00-16:00 instead of 9:00-18:00).

nick.inatey's picture nick.inatey Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 12:39

herojuana wrote:
Get those chimps in orange jumpsuits sweeping dirt off the road OFF the roads at peak times.

Seriously retarded, this morning there was a guy with whole section of lane cordoned off while he swept some shit off the road. Is that really a priority at 8 a.m. when people are trying to get to work?

Those dirt clods aren't going to hurt anyone's vehicle.

But the Audi's! Please someone think of the Audi's!

nick.inatey's picture nick.inatey Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 12:37

admin wrote:
herojuana wrote:
Just a quick question, not to get off topic Nick and admin.

Do you guys, as foreigners in China, endeavour to follow the rules of the road despite the anarchy going on around you?

i rarely drive. i've rented a car a few times and when i have, i follow the rules of the road.

I've intentionally avoided getting a car because i know that the frustration of driving will drive me to irrational acts of road rage

I dont have a car here. But if I did, I honestly wouldnt follow the rules. Thats tantamount to insurance fraud here. Besides, as you may have noticed in some of my other posts, I am a big big believer and promoter in public transport! Go team subway!

coco-nuts's picture coco-nuts Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 12:17

When I was younger, I read that soon highways would be equipped to enable cars to drive themselves. Using monitors and interconnected sensors embedded in the road, the vehicles would read the distance between themselves and adjust to avoid collisions. This sounded very futuristic, but it's now 30 years later and we still don't have that available. Popular Mechanic lied! However, the technology is available today. We just need to apply the technology to the vehicles, and I think Beijing would make a perfect test case of this technology at work. Having vehicles drive themselves would put human touch out of the madness that local drivers create and computers can help avoid pile-ups (or the driving issues that create and lead to jams). I'm confident that the vehicles coded to self-drive would help move traffic much more smoothly than BJers on the road today.

lauren_mccarthy's picture lauren_mccarthy Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 12:04

admin wrote:
I've got an idea to solve the horn issue.

Require all motorists to install a second horn that is as loud in the car interior as it is on the exterior.

Motorists can honk all they want but they'll find they are a lot less likely to use it when each activation of the horn is as loud and unpleasant for themselves as it is for the people they are honking at.

Drivers should need to buy credit for using the horn. 100 kuai a pop. People might stop honking 10 cars back as soon as the light turns green

Deputy Managing Web Editor

admin's picture admin Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 11:58

I've got an idea to solve the horn issue.

Require all motorists to install a second horn that is as loud in the car interior as it is on the exterior.

Motorists can honk all they want but they'll find they are a lot less likely to use it when each activation of the horn is as loud and unpleasant for themselves as it is for the people they are honking at.

Books by current and former Beijinger staffers

http://astore.amazon.com/truerunmedia-20

coco-nuts's picture coco-nuts Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 11:43

johnnybigstar wrote:
ok my idea is a little far fetched but stay with me on this one:
2) Everyone who turns in their bus IC card gets a free 'flying pigeon' bicycle. By taking the buses of the road, it will not only clear up traffic congestion, accidents, and headaches everywhere but it will force people to return to the good ol' bicycle. i mean, wasn't this the choice of travel just a few years ago before everyone got caught up in materialism and modernization?
~ by returning to the bicycle, whether by choice or having no choice, the roads will be cleared up, AND the environment would get a lot better too! AND people would be healthier

Very rational and workable idea. I hope it gets picked up. Just having floated it by a few people around me who are gung-ho about the daily bus, they'd support it and I think we would receive a favorable response from many more BJers.

nick.inatey's picture nick.inatey Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 11:39

antfarmks5 wrote:
I think driving is great. I love driving. Cars are an essential part of civilization, and we should not limit vehicle ownership or license registration if we expect China to be a GREAT COUNTRY. The government should subsidize fuel costs and bring back the tax subsidies for owners of small-engine vehicles, which really pollute less and can fit into tighter spaces so they don't really contribute to any traffic problems. Did you know the invention of the auto-mobile corresponds with the emergence of the awesome Western military-industrial complex? It is sort of like having a gun in your pants. (That is a metaphor.) Sometimes I go home at night and put my car inside my girlfriend. Yes, I have a girlfriend! I love my car.

^^^ …yeah, that needs to change.

You are a tragically deluded individual. Cars are not an essential part of civilisation. I could waste my time and effort detailing about 25 great civilisations that prospered without the car. You may remember a particular Mongol dynasty that ruled from Beijing by horse, and not by the car. By your definition, Tuvalu is a GREAT COUNTRY. The last thing the government should be doing is allowing fuel subsidies. It doesn't matter what size the cars are, there are too many on the roads, because of people like you obsessed with owning one for no other reason than the 'status' associated with owning a car.

You can love driving as much as you want, and thats super. But can you honestly consider Beijing's average speed of 12km/h driving? If the suggestions you outlined ever become implemented, the average speed will be closer to about 8km/h. perhaps you can start a business selling cars without gears 3, 4, 5. You wont be needing them for your precious 'driving'.

lynxlynx's picture lynxlynx Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 11:31

Thanks, hero; you hit the nail on the head with your remarks.

- promote car-sharing
- allow flexible working hours
- ban mobile phones while driving
- ban the use of horns. no horns, more brain
- the majority of the office work can be done from home. allow employees to work from home 2-3 days out of 5
- aks cab and bus drivers about their opinions: they know their roads
- building up a harmonius society? define this when it comes to traffic behaviour
- speaking about harmony: explain people how to enter/exit a subway. ask how it´s done in Taipei, for example.
- introduce the term "foresightful driving"
- (...)

johnnybigstar's picture johnnybigstar Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 11:21

ok my idea is a little far fetched but stay with me on this one:

step 1: take away all public buses.
a) bus drivers are the worst out there. i bet about half of all accidents i see (and i'm being conservative in my guess) are because of buses. This not only creates problems for the innocent motorist who got nailed but also creates huge traffic jams for all while they clear it.
b) The majority of traffic jams on ring roads are caused by the bus stops right where the entrances/exits of the ring road are. Millions of buses piling up at bus stops creates deadlocks on the ring roads.
c) The buses not only create problems on ring roads but on all roads as they are so big and cumbersome yet driven like ferrari's.. bus drivers do NOT look before pulling into traffic, changing lanes, slamming on brakes, or doing anything else ridiculous..so the majority of cars end up getting stuck behind an army of buses.
step 2) Everyone who turns in their bus IC card gets a free 'flying pigeon' bicycle. By taking the buses of the road, it will not only clear up traffic congestion, accidents, and headaches everywhere but it will force people to return to the good ol' bicycle. i mean, wasn't this the choice of travel just a few years ago before everyone got caught up in materialism and modernization?
~ by returning to the bicycle, whether by choice or having no choice, the roads will be cleared up, AND the environment would get a lot better too! AND people would be healthier

* therefore it's in my opinion that taking away buses would solve not only the traffic problem but also the pollution and the problem of chinese kids looking like the michelin man.

(don't take this too seriously, of course i am joking, but doesn't it make sense?)

admin's picture admin Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 10:18

herojuana wrote:
Just a quick question, not to get off topic Nick and admin.

Do you guys, as foreigners in China, endeavour to follow the rules of the road despite the anarchy going on around you?

i rarely drive. i've rented a car a few times and when i have, i follow the rules of the road.

I've intentionally avoided getting a car because i know that the frustration of driving will drive me to irrational acts of road rage

Books by current and former Beijinger staffers

http://astore.amazon.com/truerunmedia-20

coco-nuts's picture coco-nuts Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 09:25

admin wrote:
here's my neighborhod road situation, in a nutshell:

4. With useless bike lanes in place, residents return to parking illegally (this time parallel to the curb), once again rendering it impossible for two cars to pass one another without slowing down to inch past one another, and inevitably snarling traffic.

@Admin, great illustration. Can someone get it in front of the traffic administration for their information and re-education purposes? I go into the Shuangjing area several times a week (and there is a road that is exactly as you've described here). What frustrates me about what has happened on this road is that the govt has now authorized parking toll collectors on this road, which wasn't even originally designed to allow vehicular parking!!!! So they are encouraging people to park and block up the road, one that was supposed to be a two-lane each way. WTF?? My suggestion for these types of violations is to hook and remove them to a pound. Not lock up the wheels to immobilize because that would simply leave them in place to clutter up the road. Violators must be removed and know that there is that threat that when they know they are violating a law, that there are consequences.

waitaitai's picture waitaitai Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 08:39

Ditto for the essential CROSSWALK PAINTING being carried out as we speak at the corner of Chaoyang Beilu/Tuan Jiehu
This started yesterday. (I think the post about being stuck there on the way to Wanda is very related).
Does this need to be done during the week, during rush hour?
This plus the dozens of things I see every day while walking (yes, you, Audiman, who decided to make a U-turn at the intersection of Gongti Beilu and Sanlitun to head back toward Baijiazhuang, effectively crippling both intersections for the better part of 40 minutes(walked to pick up daughter, waited for her 20 minutes and on way back, traffic there was still totally gridlocked)
Things like this make me realize there really isn't any hope at all for the traffic here.
Luckily, I can give this problem the "let's ignore it and hope that it goes away" treatment.
Definitely have empathy for those who have to drive in it.

herojuana's picture herojuana Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 08:21

Get those chimps in orange jumpsuits sweeping dirt off the road OFF the roads at peak times.

Seriously retarded, this morning there was a guy with whole section of lane cordoned off while he swept some shit off the road. Is that really a priority at 8 a.m. when people are trying to get to work?

Those dirt clods aren't going to hurt anyone's vehicle.

Irish coffee, and Irish car bomb
A fat drunk jew starts singing this song
I take a closer look and the fat guy is me
So I buy him a shot, and he buys me back three

aloeveralee's picture aloeveralee Submitted by Guest on Fri, 01/07/2011 - 08:05

The root cause of the increasing traffic in Beijing is because of the sheer number of vehicles added to the roads every day. So the solution would be to simply reduce the numbers! Though I agree that handing out heftier fines to fender-benders, rule violators, tougher license issuing, night-only roadwork, synchronizing traffic lights, and even car-pooling, etc. are good, they are simply the band-aid solution to the root cause. Even if the even-odd license plate restriction were put in place, the number of parked cars not driving on their day still clog the streets.

Re-education: people need to be re-educated and not believe that in order to be more “civilized” like the West, they need a car, whether for convenience, status, freedom (how can sitting in traffic or waiting for a parking space bring convenience and freedom??). The government should discourage people from buying cars rather than encouraging them to help stimulate the economy. Get rid of all those car ads! Slap 100% tax on new cars, licenses, insurance, etc. and make it near to impossible to own a car. There’s always the super-rich who will pay anything so they can easily help contribute to the economy. They can also help subsidize the public transportation system. In the past, people relied on their legs and bikes and rode those sardine-packed rickety buses in the heat of the summers and cold of the winters, and survived. Beijing’s public transportation is so much more improved and only getting better. Sure, it can be sardined at times, but more subways and buses can come more often with the subsidies. If you’re not one to take public modes of transport, taking a taxi would be a lot more convenient as well because hopefully the roads won’t be jammed so you actually get to your destination faster. If you’re really itching to do the driving, then there are always car rentals (of course a limited number of cars should also be put in place).

Before the Olympics, the government got rid of many old cars. They can and should do it again before the city chokes itself, both on the road and in the air (imagine how much cleaner the air would be without all those idling cars!) The many problems to Beijing’s traffic can be alleviated by tackling the root cause first: reducing the number of vehicles. Good luck Beijing! 好运北京！

herojuana's picture herojuana Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 18:34

Just a quick question, not to get off topic Nick and admin.

Do you guys, as foreigners in China, endeavour to follow the rules of the road despite the anarchy going on around you?

I definitely do, I've just been brought up that way. Driving in the city/highway is time to conform to the rules for safety and common sense.

Sometimes when I see a Chinese driver being courteous or just driving normally, I'm filled with an urge to hug them.

Irish coffee, and Irish car bomb
A fat drunk jew starts singing this song
I take a closer look and the fat guy is me
So I buy him a shot, and he buys me back three

herojuana's picture herojuana Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 18:31

admin wrote:
here's my neighborhod road situation, in a nutshell:

1. city designs roadway to function normally.


2. residents ignore rules and park on either side, thereby rendering it impossible for two cars to pass one another without slowing down to inch past one another, and inevitably snarling traffic

3. City cracks down on parking, installs impossibly broad bike lanes that, inexplicably in some places, are blocked off with fences, preventing easy access by bicyle.


4. With useless bike lanes in place, residents return to parking illegally (this time parallel to the curb), once again rendering it impossible for two cars to pass one another without slowing down to inch past one another, and inevitably snarling traffic.

This really illustrates well that it's not the fault of the city planners. It's the fault of the people.

Chinese people are incapable of obeying traffic laws, and until some serious punishment starts getting dealt out, nothing will change.

Cars that park like the ones above should be towed to impound yards, as Laura said, WAY out of the city. HUGE fines should be charged and repeat offenders should spend 30 days in jail.

Also, people caught driving 60 km in the left lane on the highway should be pulled over and ticketed THOUSANDS of RMB. Same with people who enter the wrong way on highway exits or who decide to drive in reverse on the highway because they missed their exit.

The left lane is the fast lane, you should be going about 100 km. On the way home today there was a van driving about 50 km in the left lane, I couldn't help but get very angry and thought about doing some very naughty things.

Great ideas so far guys, Lynx, you've got some great ones.

Irish coffee, and Irish car bomb
A fat drunk jew starts singing this song
I take a closer look and the fat guy is me
So I buy him a shot, and he buys me back three

lynxlynx's picture lynxlynx Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 17:33

- phased traffic lights
- reduce the number of army/official cars
- especially reduce/forbid party or city officials driving around in gov. cars with the family or bringing their aunt to shopping
- kick out all illegal cars
- kick out all illegal drivers
- kick out illegalls living here
- free bus lane not only from 7 - 9 am and in the afternoon, but the whole day
- road works only during the night
- free busrides during rush hours
- companies should reward people taking public transport/ the bycicle
- fight corruption when giving out number plates
- increase the punishment for breaking traffic rules, e.g. guys who make turns where it is forbidden and guys who think left-turning driver at traffic lights have right of way
- increase the level of knowledege that is necessary for getting a driving licence

- ...

PeterSellers's picture PeterSellers Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 17:31

oh, forgot to add, that would of course imply measure in the amounts of bikes allowed to avoid a total mess, and also that ppl stop considering "status" (better be in an Audi than on a 125cc Jialing like any Hebei folk) and rather see convenience.

About safety, when I consider road situation at peak hour, and I dont go that much faster on my motorbike than an e-bike when it's all stalled, and I have the convenience to have a 150 to 300km range. So if e-bikes are allowed, why not relax control on motorbikes? At least a little?

serrot's picture serrot Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 17:30

These are all good suggestions but I really think Beijing could benefit from some good ole fashion class war. Who hasn't been tempted to key/smash the windows of the BMWs parked on your sidewalk or in your bike lane? It may not solve the traffic problems but it would alleviate a lot of my own personal anger Wink .

PeterSellers's picture PeterSellers Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 17:23

I only quickly read all the comments, so pardon me if I missed something, but they all seem to focus solely on cars...

I own two motorbikes in Beijing; the only way I can survive in this city. One is a crappy R9 that's not so legal, the other is a Suzuki with downtown Jing A plates, fully legal (which may be useful if they one day decide to be even stricter)

I don't get it why everytime we talk about this problem, no one points out the 2-wheel solution. And not just electric bikes, but something that can ride 100 or 150km without worries of losing power.

Beijing motorbikes are hugely restricted and it only tightens with time (cf. a recent regulation, happily loosely enforced so far, to ban bikes from getting gas).

Ok, now bikes have inconvenients, chinese cops asociate bikes with criminals and the question remains wheter chinese ppl could ride a bike without killing themselves or a pedestrian after 5 minutes but STILL, everytime we talk about the traffic problem, the question of motorbikes never surfaces.

So I just wanna say it exists, and it is damn convenient to be able to reach, let's say, Wudaokou from Gongti in 30 minutes at peak hour

admin's picture admin Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 17:19

here's my neighborhod road situation, in a nutshell:

1. city designs roadway to function normally.


2. residents ignore rules and park on either side, thereby rendering it impossible for two cars to pass one another without slowing down to inch past one another, and inevitably snarling traffic

3. City cracks down on parking, installs impossibly broad bike lanes that, inexplicably in some places, are blocked off with fences, preventing easy access by bicyle.


4. With useless bike lanes in place, residents return to parking illegally (this time parallel to the curb), once again rendering it impossible for two cars to pass one another without slowing down to inch past one another, and inevitably snarling traffic.

Books by current and former Beijinger staffers

http://astore.amazon.com/truerunmedia-20

Damien23's picture Damien23 Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 16:48

herojuana wrote:
Remove cars of a certain age from the roads.

Crush them into scrap metal, use this material in the building of further subway lines.

Remove cars of a certain "quality" from the roads, ie: QQ, Xiali, City Baby, etc. They are death traps anyway.

Crush the cars.

Increase the fine for driving on a day you are not allowed to drive.

Increase the price of license plates/insurance so that only the relatively well off can drive. The poor people can ride their bikes, take the subway or take the bus.

Begin an investigation to root out all the people driving with fake licenses and fake license plates. Put them in jail or fine the shit out of them.

I second these measure.

Basically forbide cars (except cops car, taxis, bus and ambulances of course) in beijing is the ONLY solution. An alternative is to make it illegal as it was suggested to ride with less than 3 people. The fine will be used to buy bike for poor people without cars.

Of course every infraction that MAY lead to dead of someone -not parking of course- like drunk driving or other behviors should be punished by forced labor -lets say 3 month at least-.

The manpower will be used to make new subway lines financed by badass fining for smaller inffractions.

BAsically, lets make it a stupid and pricy choice to own a car in Beijing.

"I lived 3 years in China and survived Fukushima, and all I had was this stupid leukemia"

admin's picture admin Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 16:42

bike lanes -- ha! My neighborhood is cluttered with mandatory bike lanes that are BLOCKED OFF in some areas so that a biker would have to actually get off their bike and lift it over a barrier to use it.

Needless to say, the bike lane is where i usually walk, as it's the only place i'm almost guaranteed not to encounter a bike that would impede my progress (the bikes are usually on the sidewalk and the street.)

Books by current and former Beijinger staffers

http://astore.amazon.com/truerunmedia-20

lauren_mccarthy's picture lauren_mccarthy Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 16:30

Cars should be impounded for running a light, going into a bike lane, or for not parking in an actual space. Send the cars a 100 km away from the city and make people pick them up out there. And tack on a big fine. And scratch them too.

Deputy Managing Web Editor

joshofbass's picture joshofbass Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 16:06

Admin, do you think the partial enforcement is anywhere near 10% at the moment? for all road rules?

If it was it would mean that 1 in 10 times you broke the law while driving, you would cop a fine.

In my country, enforcement is low, but just high enough that it's not worth the risk to ignore the rules.

I also never said I think it should be unevenly applied.

lauren_mccarthy's picture lauren_mccarthy Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 16:01

yingyi wrote:
I spent 1,5 hours by bus from Sanyuanqiao to Wanda Plaza this morning. (usually only 20-30 minutes tops). I don't know what happened! I was stuck for half an hour on Tuanjiehu/Chaoyang Beilu intersection and I got off the bus and walked to Wanda Plaza.

I think BJ government should adapt the ERP system!

I know exactly how you feel. I used to have that commute. After waiting 40 minutes at that intersection behind only 3 cars I always took the subway.

Deputy Managing Web Editor

walls's picture walls Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 15:59

admin wrote:
The #1 rule I would enforce is an incentive to clear the scene of minor fender-benders, which in my experience cause close to 1 out of every 3 jams in the city.

How many times have you been in a 30-minute backup, only to discover when you reach the head of the line that the cause of the backup are two assholes whose cars brushed up against one another and have no visible damage, but the insist on leaving their cars in the precise spot the damage occurred, jabbering about whose fault it is and awaiting the arrival of some sort of adjudicator?

Here's what I'd do:

1. Mandatory collision insurance on all vehicles.

2. "No fault" insurance -- aka the damages are taken care of by insurance. However, if you are involved in any sort of fender-bender, both parties -- regardless of fault -- have points taken away on your license and an automatic RMB 500 fine. And of course your insurance premiums will go up if you are involved in an accident.

3. Mandatory immediate clearing of all non-injury traffic accidents. Anyone whose vehicles remain at the scene of the accident for any period of time will automatically lose their license for one month. Second time offenders will lose their license for a year, and third time offenders will have their testicles removed at the scene with a pair of rusty pliers.

And what about females? Double mastectomy with rusty hacksaw?

I love my planet Vulcan. I'm proud of being a Vulcan in the universe.

yingyi's picture yingyi Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 15:59

in Jakarta, during rush hours, there's a system called three-in-one. Meaning that if your car has less than 3 passengers, you will be fined.

The consequences are: people with cars stay at the office until very late, or take back streets and they become very jammed. But the main roads are good.

A friend who works in that area has to hire a driver and an ayi to be able to arrive at work on time. There are also people on the streets who give the service of helping people who drives a car with less than 2 companions. They're paid around 10 kuai per trip.

Don't know if this is adaptable in Beijing.

@Nick 718 and 671. Nearest stop to Wanda Plaza is 小庄路口东

antfarmks5's picture antfarmks5 Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 15:52

admin wrote:
antfarmks5 wrote:
I think driving is great. I love driving. Cars are an essential part of civilization, and we should not limit vehicle ownership or license registration if we expect China to be a GREAT COUNTRY. The government should subsidize fuel costs and bring back the tax subsidies for owners of small-engine vehicles, which really pollute less and can fit into tighter spaces so they don't really contribute to any traffic problems. Did you know the invention of the auto-mobile corresponds with the emergence of the awesome Western military-industrial complex? It is sort of like having a gun in your pants. (That is a metaphor.) Sometimes I go home at night and put my car inside my girlfriend. Yes, I have a girlfriend! I love my car.

^^^ …yeah, that needs to change.

where's that from?

Biggrin

(p.s. PSAs and education.)

lucreziab's picture lucreziab Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 15:37

I got stuck one Saturday at Xueyuan Lu and the Fourth Ring. I was stuck there for over 40 minutes. Where were people going Wu Dao Kou? Then the next week I tried the Third Ring and Xue Yuan Lu. There was no traffic at all on Xue Yuan Lu at all so why was there so much traffic? Slow drivers! if they're going to slow ticket them like the police do in other countries.

yingyi's picture yingyi Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 15:26

I spent 1,5 hours by bus from Sanyuanqiao to Wanda Plaza this morning. (usually only 20-30 minutes tops). I don't know what happened! I was stuck for half an hour on Tuanjiehu/Chaoyang Beilu intersection and I got off the bus and walked to Wanda Plaza.

I think BJ government should adapt the ERP system!

nick.inatey's picture nick.inatey Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 15:03

The roads could handle the traffic on the presumption that people obey basic road etiquette and rules. Sadly, this is a city where etiquette disappeared about the same time as queuing.

Get the police on the case. Anytime anyone remotely violates even the smallest of traffic regulations, have their licence revoked for a year and the family cars clamped!

I mean, if someone doesn't use their blinker (so, always!) then the cops can clamp the car for a year and revoke the licence.

Imagine how empty the streets would be...something like Pyongyang i would expect.

herojuana's picture herojuana Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 14:57

The weekends are a MAJOR problem, Laura.

Everyone is allowed to drive on the weekends.

I don't even bother taking the car out on the weekends, as it's bumper to bumper.

They should alternate weekends or something, give certain numbers on plates weekends when they are not allowed to drive.

Irish coffee, and Irish car bomb
A fat drunk jew starts singing this song
I take a closer look and the fat guy is me
So I buy him a shot, and he buys me back three

admin's picture admin Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 14:55

lauren_mccarthy wrote:
and the weekends aren't the problem.

^ actually in my experiencetraffic is typically WORSE on the weekends, precisely because there are more cars on the road (no restriction via license plate number on weekends)

Books by current and former Beijinger staffers

http://astore.amazon.com/truerunmedia-20

herojuana's picture herojuana Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 14:55

What about a car pool lane?

That wouldn't work, would it?

All the Audi guys driving alone would just proceed to do whatever the hell they want anyway.

Hoppyliu: Some good ideas!

Irish coffee, and Irish car bomb
A fat drunk jew starts singing this song
I take a closer look and the fat guy is me
So I buy him a shot, and he buys me back three

lauren_mccarthy's picture lauren_mccarthy Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 14:53

hoppyliu wrote:

2) only allow one car per household. this will prevent people from buying two cars with different plate numbers so that they can drive every day regardless of what plate number restriction is on any given day.

That's already happening with the new license restrictions,

hoppyliu wrote:

3) free restaurant and drinks vouchers for those who own a car but leave it at home when they go out on the weekends.

and the weekends aren't the problem.

Deputy Managing Web Editor

hoppyliu's picture hoppyliu Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 14:34

1) ration the amount of gas each car owner could buy per month. this would put a limit on how often the car can go on the road each month.

2) only allow one car per household. this will prevent people from buying two cars with different plate numbers so that they can drive every day regardless of what plate number restriction is on any given day.

3) free restaurant and drinks vouchers for those who own a car but leave it at home when they go out on the weekends.

admin's picture admin Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 14:31

antfarmks5 wrote:
I think driving is great. I love driving. Cars are an essential part of civilization, and we should not limit vehicle ownership or license registration if we expect China to be a GREAT COUNTRY. The government should subsidize fuel costs and bring back the tax subsidies for owners of small-engine vehicles, which really pollute less and can fit into tighter spaces so they don't really contribute to any traffic problems. Did you know the invention of the auto-mobile corresponds with the emergence of the awesome Western military-industrial complex? It is sort of like having a gun in your pants. (That is a metaphor.) Sometimes I go home at night and put my car inside my girlfriend. Yes, I have a girlfriend! I love my car.

^^^ …yeah, that needs to change.

where's that from?

Books by current and former Beijinger staffers

http://astore.amazon.com/truerunmedia-20

admin's picture admin Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 14:31

joshofbass wrote:
Simply enforcing ALL the rules at a level of only 10% would substantial improve driver behavior here, which is the main reason for the slow moving traffic in my opinion

i disagree. the concept of partial enforcement is exactly the issue here -- driving habits are out of control due to the fact that the law is only partially and unevenly applied -- the super-rich and super-connected have no need to follow the rules, nor do the lower ends of the economic spectrum like "hei che" drivers and the like.

Books by current and former Beijinger staffers

http://astore.amazon.com/truerunmedia-20

antfarmks5's picture antfarmks5 Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 14:10

I think driving is great. I love driving. Cars are an essential part of civilization, and we should not limit vehicle ownership or license registration if we expect China to be a GREAT COUNTRY. The government should subsidize fuel costs and bring back the tax subsidies for owners of small-engine vehicles, which really pollute less and can fit into tighter spaces so they don't really contribute to any traffic problems. Did you know the invention of the auto-mobile corresponds with the emergence of the awesome Western military-industrial complex? It is sort of like having a gun in your pants. (That is a metaphor.) Sometimes I go home at night and put my car inside my girlfriend. Yes, I have a girlfriend! I love my car.

^^^ …yeah, that needs to change.

admin's picture admin Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 13:32

herojuana wrote:
Remove cars of a certain age from the roads.

Crush them into scrap metal, use this material in the building of further subway lines.

... with the drivers still inside them

Books by current and former Beijinger staffers

http://astore.amazon.com/truerunmedia-20

herojuana's picture herojuana Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 13:23

Sorry, I forgot one, the city center/CBD should be a no private car zone.

We'll need parking lots near subway/taxi/bus stations so that people can pay for parking then commute to the CBD if that's where they work.

Irish coffee, and Irish car bomb
A fat drunk jew starts singing this song
I take a closer look and the fat guy is me
So I buy him a shot, and he buys me back three

herojuana's picture herojuana Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 13:20

Remove cars of a certain age from the roads.

Crush them into scrap metal, use this material in the building of further subway lines.

Remove cars of a certain "quality" from the roads, ie: QQ, Xiali, City Baby, etc. They are death traps anyway.

Crush the cars.

Increase the fine for driving on a day you are not allowed to drive.

Increase the price of license plates/insurance so that only the relatively well off can drive. The poor people can ride their bikes, take the subway or take the bus.

Begin an investigation to root out all the people driving with fake licenses and fake license plates. Put them in jail or fine the shit out of them.

Irish coffee, and Irish car bomb
A fat drunk jew starts singing this song
I take a closer look and the fat guy is me
So I buy him a shot, and he buys me back three

admin's picture admin Submitted by Guest on Thu, 01/06/2011 - 12:57

The #1 rule I would enforce is an incentive to clear the scene of minor fender-benders, which in my experience cause close to 1 out of every 3 jams in the city.

How many times have you been in a 30-minute backup, only to discover when you reach the head of the line that the cause of the backup are two assholes whose cars brushed up against one another and have no visible damage, but the insist on leaving their cars in the precise spot the damage occurred, jabbering about whose fault it is and awaiting the arrival of some sort of adjudicator?

Here's what I'd do:

1. Mandatory collision insurance on all vehicles.

2. "No fault" insurance -- aka the damages are taken care of by insurance. However, if you are involved in any sort of fender-bender, both parties -- regardless of fault -- have points taken away on your license and an automatic RMB 500 fine. And of course your insurance premiums will go up if you are involved in an accident.

3. Mandatory immediate clearing of all non-injury traffic accidents. Anyone whose vehicles remain at the scene of the accident for any period of time will automatically lose their license for one month. Second time offenders will lose their license for a year, and third time offenders will have their testicles removed at the scene with a pair of rusty pliers.

Books by current and former Beijinger staffers

http://astore.amazon.com/truerunmedia-20

Validate your mobile phone number to post comments.